Comments on: The problem behind the beauty problem? http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html K.J. Bishop's home on the web Wed, 21 Jul 2010 04:35:40 +0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: kjbishop http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html/comment-page-1#comment-20740 kjbishop Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:30:01 +0000 http://kjbishop.net/?p=1888#comment-20740 I think the problem is very much the same for women of all ages. (As I am a hop, skip and jump away from 40, I hope I am not forgetful of the facts 40-yr-olds face. ;-) ) It all boils down to women thinking/feeling that it is terribly important a) to be beautiful, b) that beauty has the figure of a willowy teenager, when few teenagers and fewer mature women naturally have that shape. Underlying this are problems like cultural distaste for the maternal body, fears of the adult woman who is successful on her own terms, and the fact that women have to compete for long-term monogamous rights to desirable men. Women -- and men -- need to be educated about the reality of these problems and the media needs to stop heaping wood on the fire. I think the problem is very much the same for women of all ages. (As I am a hop, skip and jump away from 40, I hope I am not forgetful of the facts 40-yr-olds face. ;-) ) It all boils down to women thinking/feeling that it is terribly important a) to be beautiful, b) that beauty has the figure of a willowy teenager, when few teenagers and fewer mature women naturally have that shape. Underlying this are problems like cultural distaste for the maternal body, fears of the adult woman who is successful on her own terms, and the fact that women have to compete for long-term monogamous rights to desirable men. Women — and men — need to be educated about the reality of these problems and the media needs to stop heaping wood on the fire.

]]> By: teaver http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html/comment-page-1#comment-20738 teaver Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:00:17 +0000 http://kjbishop.net/?p=1888#comment-20738 You forget about the fact that the 40-yr olds are usually after breastfeeding and pregnancy, struggling to keep their bored husbands with their families. Not that I think it's absolutely fine and they need it more than a family therapy, but a they seem to have a slightly different problem than teens and 20-yr olds. And a voluntary code of practice won't be of great importance here. You forget about the fact that the 40-yr olds are usually after breastfeeding and pregnancy, struggling to keep their bored husbands with their families. Not that I think it’s absolutely fine and they need it more than a family therapy, but a they seem to have a slightly different problem than teens and 20-yr olds. And a voluntary code of practice won’t be of great importance here.

]]> By: kjbishop http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html/comment-page-1#comment-20721 kjbishop Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:26:18 +0000 http://kjbishop.net/?p=1888#comment-20721 As I understand it, there's only going to be a voluntary code of practice, not a law. Yes, I do think results can be achieved by the gov't encouraging people not to do stupid or pernicious things. "Social issue" is a slightly vague term. I think body image is a public health issue. You don't necessarily learn to see through the bullshit as you live your life. If you did, boob jobs and tummy tucks for 40-yr olds wouldn't be so popular. As I understand it, there’s only going to be a voluntary code of practice, not a law. Yes, I do think results can be achieved by the gov’t encouraging people not to do stupid or pernicious things. “Social issue” is a slightly vague term. I think body image is a public health issue.

You don’t necessarily learn to see through the bullshit as you live your life. If you did, boob jobs and tummy tucks for 40-yr olds wouldn’t be so popular.

]]> By: teaver http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html/comment-page-1#comment-20720 teaver Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:13:02 +0000 http://kjbishop.net/?p=1888#comment-20720 Do you really believe it can be done by "the authority"? 'Cause I've mixed feelings about this. I think it's just one of the things you learn living your own life and observing. Having some kind of rules and regulations on social issues always makes me feel a bit claustrophobic. Do you really believe it can be done by “the authority”? ‘Cause I’ve mixed feelings about this. I think it’s just one of the things you learn living your own life and observing. Having some kind of rules and regulations on social issues always makes me feel a bit claustrophobic.

]]> By: kjbishop http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html/comment-page-1#comment-20711 kjbishop Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:29:59 +0000 http://kjbishop.net/?p=1888#comment-20711 I'd like to see some kind of education campaign to go along with whatever else they decide to do. Not something shallow, like "everyone's beautiful", but an honest explanation of the way culture commodifies the body and fetishises the youthful body (in whatever language they'll understand). I would also like to see the focus shift away from beauty (the viewer's pleasure) and on to one's own pleasure. It's a pity that we're taught to bind our pleasure to our perceptions of how someone's viewing us. All that shit's gotta be dealt with, really. I’d like to see some kind of education campaign to go along with whatever else they decide to do. Not something shallow, like “everyone’s beautiful”, but an honest explanation of the way culture commodifies the body and fetishises the youthful body (in whatever language they’ll understand).
I would also like to see the focus shift away from beauty (the viewer’s pleasure) and on to one’s own pleasure. It’s a pity that we’re taught to bind our pleasure to our perceptions of how someone’s viewing us. All that shit’s gotta be dealt with, really.

]]> By: teaver http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html/comment-page-1#comment-20708 teaver Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:49:08 +0000 http://kjbishop.net/?p=1888#comment-20708 "Australia has put together a national advisory group, (...) with the task of improving the body image of young women." Ouch. What's next on the agenda - Politically Correct Look Camps for kids? I just can't help being sceptic about it, 'cause body image is not only a social issue. It's - to put it mildly - a bit more complexed idea, so I doubt it could ever be even partially "fixed" by codes of behaviour/ regulations and it seems wishful thinking authorities blissfully ignored this fact, scarificing common sense for some populistic crap. Scary... “Australia has put together a national advisory group, (…) with the task of improving the body image of young women.”

Ouch. What’s next on the agenda – Politically Correct Look Camps for kids? I just can’t help being sceptic about it, ’cause body image is not only a social issue. It’s – to put it mildly – a bit more complexed idea, so I doubt it could ever be even partially “fixed” by codes of behaviour/ regulations and it seems wishful thinking authorities blissfully ignored this fact, scarificing common sense for some populistic crap. Scary…

]]> By: kjbishop http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html/comment-page-1#comment-20697 kjbishop Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:59:07 +0000 http://kjbishop.net/?p=1888#comment-20697 Alankria - "not sex-related": exactly. I rather feel we've become like a tribe of neurotic mandrills, obsessed with the equivalent of who has the bluest bottom. D - maybe I'm too optimistic, but I think the "one ideal beauty" paradigm can be made to change, at least somewhat. Blonde hair and blue eyes used to be the ideal, but now I think the Western world, at least, doesn't see any ideal colour for beauty any more. It <i>might</i> be possible for us to ditch the ideal figure, too. But I have to admit, I wouldn't put a bet on it -- not as long as we continue to obsessively use the (particularly female) body as a code or stand-in for other things -- for wealth, success and virtue, and for somebody's power. That's what I think we do, actually -- not consciously, I'm sure -- but it just occurred to me that by making a big deal of beauty, by keeping its definition narrow, and by making such a public to-do over the bodies of celebs, we are trying to wield some sort of power. <i>What</i> sort of power, though, I'm not sure. Andrew - aw, shucks ;-) I don't know what sort of shape the government minister, psychologist et al are in, but you're absolutely right that the group should include people who've personally suffered from this shit. Ya know, I like glamour. I like fashion. But so many of those models and celebs aren't really glamorous, in my eyes. I can't look at their wardrobe malfunctions and plastic lips and feel myself transported into an elegant fantasy -- so there's no reason to look. Alankria – “not sex-related”: exactly. I rather feel we’ve become like a tribe of neurotic mandrills, obsessed with the equivalent of who has the bluest bottom.

D – maybe I’m too optimistic, but I think the “one ideal beauty” paradigm can be made to change, at least somewhat. Blonde hair and blue eyes used to be the ideal, but now I think the Western world, at least, doesn’t see any ideal colour for beauty any more. It might be possible for us to ditch the ideal figure, too. But I have to admit, I wouldn’t put a bet on it — not as long as we continue to obsessively use the (particularly female) body as a code or stand-in for other things — for wealth, success and virtue, and for somebody’s power. That’s what I think we do, actually — not consciously, I’m sure — but it just occurred to me that by making a big deal of beauty, by keeping its definition narrow, and by making such a public to-do over the bodies of celebs, we are trying to wield some sort of power. What sort of power, though, I’m not sure.

Andrew – aw, shucks ;-) I don’t know what sort of shape the government minister, psychologist et al are in, but you’re absolutely right that the group should include people who’ve personally suffered from this shit.

Ya know, I like glamour. I like fashion. But so many of those models and celebs aren’t really glamorous, in my eyes. I can’t look at their wardrobe malfunctions and plastic lips and feel myself transported into an elegant fantasy — so there’s no reason to look.

]]> By: Andrew van der Stock http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html/comment-page-1#comment-20696 Andrew van der Stock Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:51:14 +0000 http://kjbishop.net/?p=1888#comment-20696 Kirsten, And there was me thinking that you are one of the beautiful people, and thus need no improvements. :-) I think the board left out a few folks who need to be there... it's sort of like gym junkies trying to work out how to help obese people. If they've never experienced being fat, they can't actually understand what it's like to live life as a fat person, the drivers and motivators that might actually work. I hope they add a few folks who are directly affected by the body image issue, such as girls who starve themselves to be airbrush thin, women who have curves in all the right places but think themselves ugly despite their actual beauty, and those inflicted with normal skin. My wife finds it funny when I dismiss models and folks famous for being famous as society's zeros. They offer us nothing. The A-list in my mind are those who do great deeds and succeed despite everything stacked against them. Andrew Kirsten,

And there was me thinking that you are one of the beautiful people, and thus need no improvements. :-)

I think the board left out a few folks who need to be there… it’s sort of like gym junkies trying to work out how to help obese people. If they’ve never experienced being fat, they can’t actually understand what it’s like to live life as a fat person, the drivers and motivators that might actually work.

I hope they add a few folks who are directly affected by the body image issue, such as girls who starve themselves to be airbrush thin, women who have curves in all the right places but think themselves ugly despite their actual beauty, and those inflicted with normal skin.

My wife finds it funny when I dismiss models and folks famous for being famous as society’s zeros. They offer us nothing. The A-list in my mind are those who do great deeds and succeed despite everything stacked against them.

Andrew

]]> By: D http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html/comment-page-1#comment-20693 D Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:08:59 +0000 http://kjbishop.net/?p=1888#comment-20693 I think they have a good idea going on, but an impossible task. No matter what, so few people, or one advertising / awareness campaign is not able to erase from the consciousness of the readers the predominant beauty type of the 'western ' civilization. The readers might think ' Oh look she is fat but she looks okay ' or ' Oh look she has short legs but she is pretty ' but there will always be one body type we deem beautiful and automatically and unconsciously compare all others. I think they have a good idea going on, but an impossible task. No matter what, so few people, or one advertising / awareness campaign is not able to erase from the consciousness of the readers the predominant beauty type of the ‘western ‘ civilization.

The readers might think ‘ Oh look she is fat but she looks okay ‘ or ‘ Oh look she has short legs but she is pretty ‘ but there will always be one body type we deem beautiful and automatically and unconsciously compare all others.

]]> By: Alankria http://kjbishop.net/2009/03/23/the-problem-behind-the-beauty-problem.html/comment-page-1#comment-20690 Alankria Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:57:00 +0000 http://kjbishop.net/?p=1888#comment-20690 Well, I'm glad some people are respecting the problem enough to try to do something about it, but I agree: I'd far prefer a world where intellectual or artistic or sporting or [something else not sex-related] achievements were far more widely used to form an opinion of a woman or man. Well, I’m glad some people are respecting the problem enough to try to do something about it, but I agree: I’d far prefer a world where intellectual or artistic or sporting or [something else not sex-related] achievements were far more widely used to form an opinion of a woman or man.

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