Comments on: Women and self-promotion

By: kjbishop

kjbishop — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:38:19 +0000

Yup. And I think the second level butts up against economics (perceived worth of a person related to economic value of their work and products), which I’m not qualified to even theorise about.

By: Gillian

Gillian — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:18:01 +0000

Two levels need solving – the inside one (our own judgements based on all those factors) and the outside one (so that when we have ostred ourselves out, we don’t get put back into a place where we should not be. That’s the theory of solving. Theories are easy .

By: kjbishop

kjbishop — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:13:28 +0000

Hmm, is the mainstream-ish writing not part of the real Gillian?

That worthlessness, I think it must be caused by a complex of cultural messages and personal circumstances; and perhaps it can be learned from early role models, too. I guess it’s another word for “low self esteem”? And then there’s the question of how to solve the problem…

By: Gillian

Gillian — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:53:57 +0000

PS I know that feeling of worthlessness! And it brings us back full circle, in a way, because I think it’s something that’s inculcated in us. You explore it in your Baggage story, in fact.

It’s a complex set of cultural messages that reinforce some people within a culture and subvert others. I recently watched an episode of Bewitched and was horrified at how it reinforced a bunch of big negatives for women.

By: Gillian

Gillian — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:50:43 +0000

We start with a tricky question and lure ourselves deeper and deeper into the marshes of uncertainty.

Right now I’m playing with more mainstream writing (as you know) but the real Gillian – cross-genre and quirky and misfit – keeps returning.

By: kjbishop

kjbishop — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:44:58 +0000

Right you are. In my case, though, I had a book that I could see was privileged by the current cultural mix, and I was still shy about it, and completely clueless about making contacts. That might have been at least somewhat to do with being Australian, though — the internet wasn’t so well developed, so making contacts outside Oz — and even in it — was harder. But I also had a deep, abiding sense of worthlessness. And rejection by publishers comfirmed that sense. It’s hard to persevere if you feel (even if you don’t think) that you deserve to fail.

And on the other track, we’re running into the damn tricky question of how someone whose work is outside the cultural mix can get their work into the mix. (In my case, I don’t know if I’ll ever write another book that’s in the mix — might have had my one and only commercial showing!).

By: Gillian

Gillian — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:07:16 +0000

You’re quite right. It’s another set of problems, but they’re partly linked, since the writer mostly likely to create something that doesn’t fit the current cultural mix is someone who isn’t privileged by that mix.

By: kjbishop

kjbishop — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:49:29 +0000

Absolutely. And your own culture isn’t necessarily your own… We seem to be talking about two different things now: firstly, self-promotion (doing it at all), and secondly promoting something that doesn’t fit an established cultural niche. (Am I right? I might be getting confused.)

By: Gillian

Gillian — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:43:48 +0000

That’s a different part of the cultural mix, though, whether something fits established paths for sale and how to evaluate stuff that doesn’t.

By: kjbishop

kjbishop — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:39:29 +0000

Damn good points. I think it depends on whether both parties recognise the hierarchy, too. If I don’t recognise someone’s supposed privilege, I won’t be a doormat for them.

I tend to ask myself “Would I be happy to do this favour for this person if they asked me?”

I might at some point have said I got to be an honorary male, but now I’m not so sure. Otherwise I might have to start calling other female writers honorary men. I wrote something that some men liked, and that happened accidentally to be fashionable. But there are obviously a lot of women writers a lot more successful than me. And some of them write about women. So how they write about women might be the thing? I mean, obviously, all the self-promotion in the world won’t help if publishers can’t see a market for the work.